We Don't Know Ourselves: A Personal History of Modern Ireland
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- Create Date：2022-12-16 17:21:37
- Update Date：2025-09-06
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- Author：Fintan O'Toole
- ISBN：1324092874
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Summary
Fintan O’Toole was born in the year the revolution began。 It was 1958， and the Irish government—in despair， because all the young people were leaving—opened the country to foreign investment and popular culture。 So began a decades-long， ongoing experiment with Irish national identity。 In We Don’t Know Ourselves， O’Toole， one of the Anglophone world’s most consummate stylists， weaves his own experiences into Irish social， cultural， and economic change， showing how Ireland， in just one lifetime， has gone from a reactionary “backwater” to an almost totally open society—perhaps the most astonishing national transformation in modern history。
Born to a working-class family in the Dublin suburbs， O’Toole served as an altar boy and attended a Christian Brothers school， much as his forebears did。 He was enthralled by American Westerns suddenly appearing on Irish television， which were not that far from his own experience， given that Ireland’s main export was beef and it was still not unknown for herds of cattle to clatter down Dublin’s streets。 Yet the Westerns were a sign of what was to come。 O’Toole narrates the once unthinkable collapse of the all-powerful Catholic Church， brought down by scandal and by the activism of ordinary Irish， women in particular。 He relates the horrific violence of the Troubles in Northern Ireland， which led most Irish to reject violent nationalism。 In O’Toole’s telling， America became a lodestar， from John F。 Kennedy’s 1963 visit， when the soon-to-be martyred American president was welcomed as a native son， to the emergence of the Irish technology sector in the late 1990s， driven by American corporations， which set Ireland on the path toward particular disaster during the 2008 financial crisis。
A remarkably compassionate yet exacting observer， O’Toole in coruscating prose captures the peculiar Irish habit of “deliberate unknowing，” which allowed myths of national greatness to persist even as the foundations were crumbling。 Forty years in the making， We Don’t Know Ourselves is a landmark work， a memoir and a national history that ultimately reveals how the two modes are entwined for all of us。
Born to a working-class family in the Dublin suburbs， O’Toole served as an altar boy and attended a Christian Brothers school， much as his forebears did。 He was enthralled by American Westerns suddenly appearing on Irish television， which were not that far from his own experience， given that Ireland’s main export was beef and it was still not unknown for herds of cattle to clatter down Dublin’s streets。 Yet the Westerns were a sign of what was to come。 O’Toole narrates the once unthinkable collapse of the all-powerful Catholic Church， brought down by scandal and by the activism of ordinary Irish， women in particular。 He relates the horrific violence of the Troubles in Northern Ireland， which led most Irish to reject violent nationalism。 In O’Toole’s telling， America became a lodestar， from John F。 Kennedy’s 1963 visit， when the soon-to-be martyred American president was welcomed as a native son， to the emergence of the Irish technology sector in the late 1990s， driven by American corporations， which set Ireland on the path toward particular disaster during the 2008 financial crisis。
A remarkably compassionate yet exacting observer， O’Toole in coruscating prose captures the peculiar Irish habit of “deliberate unknowing，” which allowed myths of national greatness to persist even as the foundations were crumbling。 Forty years in the making， We Don’t Know Ourselves is a landmark work， a memoir and a national history that ultimately reveals how the two modes are entwined for all of us。
Reviews
J。Paul Lennon
，
Janey Mack， we're Brilliant！This has been a great help to me who left Dublin in 1961 -to become a missionary priest and never returned to live in Ireland。 So， for the most part， I missed all the excitement。 My gut reaction is "We weren't all that bad" and "We're not all that great now！"。 But I must admire the author's ability to cover so much ground and to be able to synthesize such a variety of subjects and see them through the lens of religion， morality， sociology， history and politics。 It is Janey Mack， we're Brilliant！This has been a great help to me who left Dublin in 1961 -to become a missionary priest and never returned to live in Ireland。 So， for the most part， I missed all the excitement。 My gut reaction is "We weren't all that bad" and "We're not all that great now！"。 But I must admire the author's ability to cover so much ground and to be able to synthesize such a variety of subjects and see them through the lens of religion， morality， sociology， history and politics。 It is quite unique， being personal and encyclopedic at the same time。 It begs our attention and deserves a read。 。。。more
Hunter
，
"We Don't Know Ourselves" is an utterly fascinating narrative of contemporary Irish history and a reflection on the social silences that haunt the Irish psyche。 O'Toole comes at complex political-economic change with nuance and attention to the affective， embodied experience of societal transformation at various moments that make the present。 It left me with many questions about the future of financialization， the labor movement， feminism， and more that I am sure will lead me to more books and q "We Don't Know Ourselves" is an utterly fascinating narrative of contemporary Irish history and a reflection on the social silences that haunt the Irish psyche。 O'Toole comes at complex political-economic change with nuance and attention to the affective， embodied experience of societal transformation at various moments that make the present。 It left me with many questions about the future of financialization， the labor movement， feminism， and more that I am sure will lead me to more books and queries。 But don't get me wrong， I learned quite a lot through this book。 Previously I had knowledge of the Irish revolution and early twentieth-century socialists and Ireland over this past decade recovering from the particularly severe 2008 crash， but not much in between and not much of a sense of contemporary Irish culture。 Yet， I was at times left wanting more analysis， more sociology， more of a balance between the scandals and the contexts that precipitated them。 。。。more
Terry Earley
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list for audiobook 12-13-2022
The Atlantic
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"In a book that is at once intimate and deeply reported—sharp in its judgments and its humor—Ireland’s finest journalist chronicles his country’s painful emergence into the modern world。 Stand-alone chapters （on emigration， schools， television， contraception） form a coherent arc: from O’Toole’s childhood in working-class， tradition-bound Dublin to his reporting on Ireland’s overwhelming embrace of same-sex marriage by referendum 。。。 Central to 'We Don’t Know Ourselves' is the uneasy coexistence "In a book that is at once intimate and deeply reported—sharp in its judgments and its humor—Ireland’s finest journalist chronicles his country’s painful emergence into the modern world。 Stand-alone chapters （on emigration， schools， television， contraception） form a coherent arc: from O’Toole’s childhood in working-class， tradition-bound Dublin to his reporting on Ireland’s overwhelming embrace of same-sex marriage by referendum 。。。 Central to 'We Don’t Know Ourselves' is the uneasy coexistence of opposites: of an inward-looking past and an outward-looking present， of knowledge and denial。"https://www。theatlantic。com/books/arc。。。 。。。more
Edward
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I learned a great deal about modern Ireland。 This book has filled in many gaps I had about my parent’s lives。 I would encourage Irish Americans to read this book。
Gideon Yutzy
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Excitedly recommended by my wife who subsequently abandoned it， though in fairness it is one large tome of a book and I nearly abandoned it myself a few times。 O'Toole definitely tempers the cynicism I had been feeling recently toward modern Irish reactionism against Catholicism。 Even a fraction of the stories of abuse， hypocrisy and coverup mentioned in the book would go a long way in explaining the former。 Important and accessible for expatriates to Ireland （like me） trying to understand host Excitedly recommended by my wife who subsequently abandoned it， though in fairness it is one large tome of a book and I nearly abandoned it myself a few times。 O'Toole definitely tempers the cynicism I had been feeling recently toward modern Irish reactionism against Catholicism。 Even a fraction of the stories of abuse， hypocrisy and coverup mentioned in the book would go a long way in explaining the former。 Important and accessible for expatriates to Ireland （like me） trying to understand host culture。 。。。more
Tim Heneghan
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up there with say nothing。 wish there were more books that mixed memoir and history like this。 recommended by farf
Deborah
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Well worth reading … er … listening to。Audiobook narrator was okay。 Not the best perhaps， but adequate for the job。Gives a “personal history” of Ireland from about 1916 to the present。 “Personal” because the author includes glimpses and anecdotes into his place and experience in this history。 This greatly added to the narrative （imho）。 This is an informative book， but also funny （at times） & interesting。He occasionally makes broad sweeps / pronouncements about the Irish culture， but they are bas Well worth reading … er … listening to。Audiobook narrator was okay。 Not the best perhaps， but adequate for the job。Gives a “personal history” of Ireland from about 1916 to the present。 “Personal” because the author includes glimpses and anecdotes into his place and experience in this history。 This greatly added to the narrative （imho）。 This is an informative book， but also funny （at times） & interesting。He occasionally makes broad sweeps / pronouncements about the Irish culture， but they are based in facts。 Me thinks it appropriate and incisive / astute。If you want to understand Ireland in the last 60 years or so， this is a great place to start。 。。。more
Koen
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Backlog: Indrukwekkende persoonlijke geschiedenis van Ierland。 Niet altijd makkelijk te lezen als je niet zo bekend bent met die geschiedenis。 Zoals ik。 Ik kan me voorstellen dat dit in Ierland als een heel goed boek wordt gezien。
Doug Newdick
，
Is it crass to say that Fintan O'Toole has a touch of the blarney？ This very dark， personal history of Ireland since 1958 （the year of O'Toole's birth） is made lighter by his beautiful turn of phrase， by the very literary nature of his prose。 Because in many ways this is a very hard story to read。 Ireland's journey into modernity is beset by many evils: religious prejudice， misogyny， sexual abuse， corruption and the extreme violence of the Troubles。 Throughout this memoir， O'Toole has an unflinc Is it crass to say that Fintan O'Toole has a touch of the blarney？ This very dark， personal history of Ireland since 1958 （the year of O'Toole's birth） is made lighter by his beautiful turn of phrase， by the very literary nature of his prose。 Because in many ways this is a very hard story to read。 Ireland's journey into modernity is beset by many evils: religious prejudice， misogyny， sexual abuse， corruption and the extreme violence of the Troubles。 Throughout this memoir， O'Toole has an unflinching eye for Irish hypocrisy - calling out the double standards involved in banning abortion in Ireland， while ignoring women travelling to England for abortions， or decrying British and Unionist violence while committing murder in Belfast。 A stunning and enlightening book with an unswerving moral compass。 Compulsory reading for those interested in modern Ireland， and who want to see beneath the surface of this complex and often tragic history。 。。。more
Nancy
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We Don’t Know Ourselves: A Personal History of Modern Ireland / Fintan O’Toole。 O’Toole’s book has been selected as one of the ten best books of 2022 by the New York Times。 I wholeheartedly concur。 It would have been more personally meaningful if my knowledge of Ireland were more extensive， but， as it was， I found it immensely informative and philosophically useful。 Is there such a tome—so original， comprehensive， and intimate-- about the modern United States？
Pearse
，
Really excellent breakdown of Irish history and interesting links between problems/processes of the past and unintended consequences throughout Irish history
Charles M
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A book that removes any romantic notions Irish Americans might have had about the “ old country “。 。 O’Toole shows Ireland ‘s evolution from a backward rural country in the mid 1950s to an assertively urban European one 。 It was a journey which saw the corrosion of the power of the backward looking controlling political party and the Catholic Church accelerated by the corruption of in both 。 A very informative well written book covering a wide range of topics and the last seventy years
Rachel
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Fascinating history， super well written。
Spence
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Great book on some of the more modern history of Ireland。 Crazy to see how some of the things were in regards to the Churches influence on things。
Abigail Smith
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I would have enjoyed this book far more had it had significantly less economic and political policy so thoroughly narrated。
Rachel
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I visited Ireland 20 years ago with my dad， but this book puts that visit in a fresh context and makes me want to go back as a more informed guest。 I， like many Americans with Irish ancestry， certainly romanticized the island and had little practical understanding of its political and social systems- and how oppressive they were。 Sure， I knew it was a poor country for much of the 20th century， but I didn't think about in terms of access to indoor plumbing （basically nonexistent until the 1950s f I visited Ireland 20 years ago with my dad， but this book puts that visit in a fresh context and makes me want to go back as a more informed guest。 I， like many Americans with Irish ancestry， certainly romanticized the island and had little practical understanding of its political and social systems- and how oppressive they were。 Sure， I knew it was a poor country for much of the 20th century， but I didn't think about in terms of access to indoor plumbing （basically nonexistent until the 1950s for the rural Irish）- or access to education- or the type of education the state provided。 For example， hard sciences and modern languages were often just not offered as few educators were qualified to teach them。 About half of children were leaving school at 14 years old， unprepared to do much beyond low-skill trades and farm or domestic labor。 This outcome isn't too surprising once you hear how the kids were treated in those schools。 Meanwhile， because Irish statehood was so wrapped up in the Catholic identity， just the most ridiculous policy decisions were made。 One of O'Toole's main themes focuses on how society chooses to not know- and know- at the same time。 Because the demands of living in a conservative Catholic state are often untenable for many people， a whole shadow system develops。 For example， the state does not permit the sale of contraceptives。 However， seemingly aware- at least on one level- that the policy is counter-productive to the economic development the state desires- the government permits women to receive prescriptions for the Pill to treat irregular menstrual cycles。 The rate of women in Ireland who are subsequently diagnosed with menstrual cycle irregularities far outstrips the rate of any other nation。 The state is aware of that inconsistency yet they choose not to know that women are being misdiagnosed for the sake of getting access to contraception。 Then there were other trends- like the popularity of country-western music in the 1970s- that were surprising。 At least I had a sense of what that sounded like。 A lot of the television personalities， shows and bands that he referred to were unknown to me- so I spent a lot of time Googling。 Such references indicate that this book was primarily written for the Irish diaspora - not that we all couldn't learn something from it。 For sure I wish Americans pushing for culturally conservative laws would read it。 It's pretty clear what the consequences of such laws are likely to be- and maybe they'd be less inclined to want to learn the hard way if they could learn from the Irish experience。 。。。more
Ryan
，
No work of non-fiction since Antony Beevor's Stalingrad has engrossed me so thoroughly for so many pages。 To discuss it here would be to violate it。 No work of non-fiction since Antony Beevor's Stalingrad has engrossed me so thoroughly for so many pages。 To discuss it here would be to violate it。 。。。more
Anetq
，
I'm not usually into history books or autobiographies for that matter， but this is both and neither at the same time - a bit like the Ireland it describes， where things can be - and not be - at the same time。 This journalistic effort to describe a nation through themed episodes about all sides of Irish life: Catholic schools （and their abuse）， politics， the Troubles， IRA hungerstrikes the eventual peace deal， women's rights （not many until very recently）， same for LGBT （none， until even later）， I'm not usually into history books or autobiographies for that matter， but this is both and neither at the same time - a bit like the Ireland it describes， where things can be - and not be - at the same time。 This journalistic effort to describe a nation through themed episodes about all sides of Irish life: Catholic schools （and their abuse）， politics， the Troubles， IRA hungerstrikes the eventual peace deal， women's rights （not many until very recently）， same for LGBT （none， until even later）， the abortion travel to the UK， emigration， musik， riverdance， JKF and the pope visiting， the EU， the Celtic tiger， corruption， the catholic church losing it's power after everyone finally stopped ignoring child abuse。 And more recent votes to Repeal the 8th - abortion and LGBT marriages。。。 All these small（and bigger） stories weave together to paint a picture of an Ireland trying to move on， from an underdeveloped country into modernity - even when an unholy trinity of the church， it's own politics and a long civil war does it's best to hold it back。 It's a fascinating tale （and very elegantly put together by showing the big picture in the small stories） - about a country so well trained in 'not knowing'， even when everyone knows （about corruption， pedophile priests， abortions， etc。） - that they don't actually know themselves - and trying so hard not to be British （post colonialism） but have no trouble almost declaring themselves American。 Many things in Ireland have been a bit like Schrödinger's cat alive and dead at the same time - but as long as no one pointed it out， that was fine。 。。。more
Peter Holmes
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Good， well written history of modern Ireland from the perspective of an Irish Catholic。
Hilary
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A journalistic masterpiece， with the added human interest slant of autobiographical vignettes that never feel self-serving but always link acutely to the historical moment the author is trying to capture。 As someone whose lifelong hobby it is to learn as much as possible about Irish history and culture， I loved this book。 It's very long， but definitely worth it （the audio version is decent， although I preferred reading it in print）。 I really enjoyed the dual purposes of the book， to share his ow A journalistic masterpiece， with the added human interest slant of autobiographical vignettes that never feel self-serving but always link acutely to the historical moment the author is trying to capture。 As someone whose lifelong hobby it is to learn as much as possible about Irish history and culture， I loved this book。 It's very long， but definitely worth it （the audio version is decent， although I preferred reading it in print）。 I really enjoyed the dual purposes of the book， to share his own personal history alongside the history of the country， as his own life coincides with the time period he is focusing on and his generation was the intended recipient of a lot of the changes （or attempted changes） he tracks。 My interest in reading the book was particularly the opportunity to understand how such a strictly （from what I had heard and read， oppressively） Catholic country could have passed laws granting equal marriage and abortion rights before the US。 I got this understanding in depth， but I also got a larger message that encapsulates both of those specific things。 Here are my two favorite passages from the book:"In that vote [referendum to repeal abortion ban] to undo what had been done in 1983 [abortion ban]， Ireland was not just going back to revisit a moment in its recent past。 It was being taken aback--by itself， by its own subtleties and complexities， by the ambiguities that had been there all along but that could only now be fully acknowledged。 For the older generation， this was not really a change of mind。 It was an acceptance that it was always in two minds。 One of them craved certainty， fixity， the ability to declare an imaginary future that would conform to an imaginary past。 The other knew that the real lived history of the place and the people who inhabit it was one of being utterly unfixed， of dealing with radical uncertainty through evasions， silences， and fictions。 It was time to allow that second， submerged consciousness to come up for air。。。。Perhaps we are learning to live without being so defined。 Over sixty years of change， and through periods of despair， delusion， and derangement， we have arrived at what the poet John Keats called negative capability: 'capable of being in uncertainties， Mysteries， doubts， without any irritable reaching after fact and reason。'" 。。。more
Cass
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Brilliant approach to modern Irish history， essentially organized through moments in the life of the author。 The only slight negatives are that Mr。 O’Toole， perhaps unconsciously， assumes that the reader knows what happened next。 We foreign readers don’t know。 If and when it goes to subsequent editions， it would be a great help to add in a few sentences of wrap up to almost every event。 The other slight negative is that in the overwhelming gloom about the state of Irish education in the 1960s， t Brilliant approach to modern Irish history， essentially organized through moments in the life of the author。 The only slight negatives are that Mr。 O’Toole， perhaps unconsciously， assumes that the reader knows what happened next。 We foreign readers don’t know。 If and when it goes to subsequent editions， it would be a great help to add in a few sentences of wrap up to almost every event。 The other slight negative is that in the overwhelming gloom about the state of Irish education in the 1960s， the author misses the fact that for all its horrors， it was superior to at least American education。 Two years of Irish elementary school in the 1960s would get you skipped a grade upon return to American education， as my family can attest。 That perspective， which perhaps was unknown in Ireland， might complicate the picture。On the whole， a lively and ultimately moving history。 。。。more
Harry Helbock
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Pretty cynical。 A good cross between Angela's Ashes and Say Nothing。 Pretty cynical。 A good cross between Angela's Ashes and Say Nothing。 。。。more
Dave Trembley
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The best nonfiction book I've read in 2022 The best nonfiction book I've read in 2022 。。。more
Jody
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Audio book。 This is more history than personal。 I learned a lot about the politics of Ireland in the last 50 years。 It was interesting and well written but not quite what I expected。
Erika
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Beautifully written --- a gorgeous exploration of modern Irish history through the lens of journalistic memoir
Sam Young
，
haha i finished and i’m crying？？？？？？
Vansa
，
This is a blistering， insightful look at the last 60 years of Ireland-Fintan O’Toole starts with the year he was born， 1958 and chronicles his country through the tumultuous years of the 2nd half of the 20th century and up until now。 The book is structured as a chronological series of essays， some covering a year， some covering a period of 2-3 years， all of which combine to form a lucid， coherent narrative that manages to give you a fascinating overview of a country changing。 O’ Toole uses a com This is a blistering， insightful look at the last 60 years of Ireland-Fintan O’Toole starts with the year he was born， 1958 and chronicles his country through the tumultuous years of the 2nd half of the 20th century and up until now。 The book is structured as a chronological series of essays， some covering a year， some covering a period of 2-3 years， all of which combine to form a lucid， coherent narrative that manages to give you a fascinating overview of a country changing。 O’ Toole uses a combination of memoir， news reports， incidents to illustrate the forces that control the country-the political parties， （Fianna Fail for most of the time） and the Catholic Church。 He uses anecdotes， personal， and otherwise，and explores what that has to say about the society as a whole。 The philosophy underpinning this book is that a culture of silences， false confidence and hypocrisy prevailed over the country as he was growing up， fostered by the Catholic Church， and aided by the politicians。 Since being shown to be supported by the Church was such an easy way to gain popularity， no politician opposed any of their strictures， and in fact invoked their attitudes towards the electorate。 The country had an uneasy relationship with America， so many of their people having migrated there， but also a sense of wanting to prove that Ireland was the mother country and America an offshoot-excellently described in his chapter on JFK’s visit to Ireland， where he was treated fawningly like a demi-god， but also as a “local boy done good”-an attitude that elides the fairly desperate circumstances of many Irish emigrants， and seems to ignore that he had to leave Ireland to succeed。 There are harrowing chapters that deal with the Magdalen laundries，the seminal cases that led to incremental changes in women’s rights。 O’Toole presents a take on theTroubles that I haven’t come across before， and he doesn’t look too kindly on the IRA， accusing them of adopting a hardline stance and of harbouring fairly regressive and deeply Catholic attitudes （ ironic，given that the Catholic Church completely supported Fianna Fail）。 He doesn’t really give you their side of the story-so I didn’t get an entire picture of what it was like in Northern Ireland， living in what must have been like a police state。 O’Toole mentions several times that the IRA as well seemed to select civilian targets for their bombings， and while they claim that advance warnings were phoned in， it wasn’t always possible for everyone to hastily evacuate a crowded marketplace well in time to prevent casualties。 His chapters on the prison strike of 1981 were illuminating for the perspective he brings to it-the intransigence and cruelty of the British jailers and the Thatcher government， but also the missteps of the strikers themselves。 The accepted narrative of the prison strikes is that though some of the strikers died，they got what they wanted and conditions improved-O’Toole points out that wasn’t entirely true， with the prison authorities having imposed far harsher measures during the strike， and merely rolling those back to restore status quo with no additional improvements， however the fallout and reprisals that occurred across Ireland led to more civilian deaths。 It makes for harrowing reading， to think of the lengths the Thatcher government was willing to go to， to not accede-if a government like this had been in power during the Non-Cooperation and Civil Disobedience Movements in India， I wonder what theoutcome would have been-would they have let Gandhi starve himself to death？ An historical what-if I would rather not contemplate too deeply！O’Toole recounts the peace process as occurring gradually， with members of the IRA deciding to take a democratic route towards what they wanted， and contesting local body elections， and giving up their campaign of violence。 He seems to feel that the ultimate peace agreements that were hammered out did not have such radical changes to justify nearly 3 decades of violence and civilian deaths-put that way， however， nothing would justify a loss of life， and decolonization has always been accompanied by a loss of lives （ easy to say， of course， when you’re not the one in the line of fire！）。 The last third of the book deals with Ireland’s economic growth-after the Good Friday Agreement and the decrease in unrest， several companies started flocking to Ireland due to their favourable tax rates， proximity to Europe and a young， educated， and relatively less expensive workforce。 O’Toole leads up to the reasons for the recession Ireland experiences because of the subprime crisis， that makes for very interesting reading。Why should people around the world read this book， however， given its specificity to Ireland？ For me，personally， this book felt deeply personal-the circumstances he describes are extremely similar to those that prevail in my country， right down to the religiosity， misogyny， elision of past injustices and adoption of grand narratives with very little basis in fact， and the economic situation。 This was deeply relatable for me， and I could identify with everything he wrote about。 The book presents a very hopeful narrative of a country moving slowly from one controlled by religion to a younger population that’s more openminded and governments that move with the times as well。 I liked the book as much as I did because I’m hoping for a similar situation here！ 。。。more
jamie jiang
，
great book。 so insightful and so much to learn for every part of life。 lots of parallels to the modern society i think i grew up in。 i await my honorary irish citizenship now
Geri McB
，